She Speaks | A Let Her Speak Podcast
She Speaks | A Let Her Speak Podcast
The "Having it All Figured Out" Fallacy with Coy Kindred & Lina Evans
In this episode, you will be hearing from Coy Kindred and Lina Evans who were matched as an aspiring leader and a mentor in our Let Her Lead program. In their conversation, they cover a lot of ground around leadership, motherhood, and having a strong friendship circle. They talk about the wisdom that comes with time and the falsehood that we all think we should have it all figured out at any given time.
They talk about boundaries and being a full-time, working mom and all that entails, as well as how important it is to have the right people around you all the time that you can rely on and count on as friends.
Tune into this amazing conversation between Coy and Lina.
About Season 2 of the She Speaks Podcast:
Throughout Season 2 we will be featuring the graduates and mentors/coaches in our first cohort of the Let Her Lead program. Each woman you will hear from throughout this season embarked on a 12-week journey in late 2023 to gain new skills and insights to become the leader SHE wants to be.
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Connect with Lina:
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Our sponsor partners: Schaad Companies & Knoxville Entrepreneur Center
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You're listening to She Speaks, a Let Her Speak podcast that celebrates women's fearlessness, resiliency, and readiness to change the world. [music] Welcome back,
friends, to the She Speaks series. This is Catherine Porth, the founder of Let Her Speak. Speak. And with this episode, you will be hearing from Coy Kindred and Lina Evans,
who were matched as a leader and a mentor in our Let Her Lead program. And these ladies cover a lot of ground in their episode. They are going to go in every direction,
in every aspect of conversations that you can be having around leadership and motherhood. motherhood and having your friendship circle. They talk about the wisdom that comes with time and the falsehood that we all think that we should have it all figured out at any given time.
And in case you're not aware, there's no time that we ever feel like we have it all figured out. So just wanna give you that permission right now that it's okay if you don't feel like you have it all figured out.
They talk about boundaries and being a full time. working mom and all that that entails, as well as how important it is to have the right people around you all the time that you can rely on and count as friends.
Let's dive into this amazing conversation between Coy and Lina. So yeah,
I can tell you about what's going on with me right now My family is living out of a hotel because of our pipe bursting Crazy and then the snowpocalypse of 24 that hit Knoxville Where we were completely not expecting that amount of snow and that melted and turned to ice So we couldn't go back home like our road was impassable.
So it's been fun. We've had a lot of adventures adventures we've made pillow forts and we've enjoyed the hot breakfast that's free every morning and yeah we've made up a lot of games it's amazing to me that you did not do fun in air quotes I'm a little bit horrified by that because it would definitely been a fun and air quotes if I were telling the same exact story I'll be honest I think my mom was one of 11 and
so I'm used to a lot of kids and when we were young we would like make palettes on the floor and have sleepovers and pull out sheets.
And so it really just felt like, oh, I'm going back to my childhood. It forced me to kind of detach from all the fuss and the hustle and bustle of every day. Like I've been grinding and working on so many things.
And so it was kind of like, this forced me to take myself out of it and almost return to childhood in that imagination. and that fun and it was like, ah, it kind of gave me some life. That's amazing.
I'm happy for you for that. The rest of the world did not have that same experience just for what it's worth, okay, because we all were suffering some pandemic PTSD over here. We couldn't get out of our house.
Some of us may have gone a little cuckoo a little bit. But I mean, that's amazing that you can kind of go back to that space where you caught your breath and remembered what it's like to be a sibling,
be a mom and have fun with your kids. That's fantastic. So props to you for that. The rest of us suffering, because living in a hotel, that's wild, first of all,
because I learned very recently, I have two kids, very big age gaps. I learned recently that when you go somewhere with your children, it is not called a vacation,
it is called a holiday. holiday. When you go without your kids, that's a vacation. So I don't know what you would call what you're doing now other than horrifying.
I think would be living in a hotel. That's, that's crazy impossible during snowpocalypse and just in general, living in a hotel with kids, that's tough. That's tough stuff. I would call it a staycation.
A staycation is when you're not doing your normal day to day work. You're still in. in familiar surroundings, but you're taking a break in some type of way. So I have to put a silver lining there or else I would have lost my mind.
That's fair. That's fair. Well, I think that's a really, really good segue into the first question I have for you, if I can. Sure. Yeah. So can you share a moment when you first realized the power of self -definition and how it has impacted your journey?
I mean, frankly, your journey now and also your journey journey. Yeah, so when I think of self definition, it's really difficult to do just because so many of us are used to defining ourselves in relation to who we are to everyone else around us.
So I have four children. I'm always mom, mommy, mom, mom. I'm rarely ever just coy and just being. I rarely have time to just imagine because I'm too.
busy doing. So finding a place, I think I just, I hit a point. I would say maybe even in the last year where I've just been on this kind of transformative journey of refining myself,
I'm 35 now. And it's so funny because 10 years ago at 25, I really thought I had life figured out. And I couldn't, I couldn't.
year old thinks the same thing. - Oh man, I really, I swore I had it together. Really was doing well in my career. It was a great time,
it was. But then as life kind of cycled, I hit this point where it was like, who are you? What are you actually doing?
And I realized, like, I was. checking off all these things like okay? I own a home now. Okay. I've done that. I have children. Okay. I've done that. I have a career I'm established here,
you know the nonprofit that I'm at now. I've been there for eight years and so it's like, you know You're there now what but something it just something was still missing and I couldn't figure out what it was And it's like why why does it feel like something is missing?
What what am I missing? And so I kind of went on this journey where? where I was trying to find myself. I started skating, started playing my saxophone again, just a little bit of everything.
I dove back into poetry when I was in college. I used to do spoken word and slams and had so much fun doing that. And so I was like, let me get back into the art scene. Let me start connecting with people again,
thinking about coming out of COVID. I was like, oh man, I've got a people again. What is that? even look like? Because we got so comfortable with Zoom and online conferences and that we were losing that face to face,
like how are you building rapport with people in person? How, what does community look like when you're stuck in your home? And co -working spaces started sprouting up everywhere because people just needed to be together.
And something sparked like, wow, the more connected I am to other people, the more it seems like I'm figuring out. who I am so that self that self definition I think came from disconnecting to what and letting go of what I thought was supposed to be and just giving myself room to create like this blank canvas and just see what came of it organically if I just every single day making sure that I was doing something
that felt authentic to me and not because it was an obligation not because it was an expectation that came from something exterior. And that was the shift that happened for me. That's amazing. I mean,
you know, not to dive too much into the pandemic, but I feel like so many of us had, the pandemic was such a turning point for everybody, frankly, in a myriad of ways. You know,
for myself, I realized, I didn't realize, it's probably better way to put it, how much I was working. I love to work. I'll have always loved to work. I didn't realize how much I was working until it was in my house.
And then, you know, it felt like it lasted an eternity. We all became, like you said, comfortable with the not -peopling. And then all of a sudden it seemed like, okay, it's time to people,
right? Time to go back into the workplace. How did you feel? Like, were you ready to go back? Were you ready to people again? Have you changed? Like, in... terms of this whole self -definition thing,
did the pandemic change your self -definition of yourself by virtue of what it did to you and have all of that self -reflection? 'Cause I know for myself, when I went back, I was so excited to go back.
I was itching to go back. I mean, hello. I was shut in my house for like six days with ice and I was losing my mind. So clearly a couple of years of a pandemic had me pajamas at the grocery store with fuzzy socks on and all of that.
But, you know, it changed a lot of people's self definition of themselves. Were you, were you itching to go back? Were you ready to go back? Did you change the amount of people that you did? I know I did.
I went back, I was so excited and I was like, I'm going to do everything. I'm going to see everybody. I'm going to be every place. And I was emotionally and physically spent, emotionally and physically spent. And I, so I ended up having to,
I was redefined by virtue of the pandemic. pandemic. And then I had to then redefine myself again after, because I went back to being the person I was beforehand. And that was not working. Wow.
My experience is probably the opposite. I discovered that I am not an extrovert. I'm not an introvert. I'm an ambivert. I don't know if you've heard of that kind of that person who was a little bit of both.
It became one of those things where I was like, I, I actually don't mind if we continue staying this many feet apart at the grocery store. And I'm actually okay with some of these things. I'm a techie by heart.
I love everything, back up house, all the systems things. I'm a gamer girl. So I was still able to put on my headset and connect with people playing games,
even connecting with my own son. I have a teenager, he plays Fortnite, got me addicted. addicted. So I definitely shifted in some ways, but I don't think that it was,
I don't know that I would say it played a part in my self definition. I think it gave me more ways to be creative so that I could really listen to those kind of intuitive cues of when do I feel that pull to people?
How often do I feel like I need people? And so, I think what it did, did do was help me learn how to leverage systems more so that I could connect when I needed to and then that I could pull back when I needed to and not feel like this big pendulum swing where we go from,
oh my gosh, I gotta be at every networking event, I'm talking to every person, I'm showing up, I'm putting on full makeup and hair and you know, I'm raggedy, I'm in my pajamas, I'm walking around with a hoodie and a cup of coffee just like trying to force my way.
through. I think it helped me find balance. You know what, I don't like to say balance. I like to say harmony because balance, it can put you in a state of constant juggling where you never actually find it.
When you think about like putting weight on two scales and you're trying to get them to be perfectly balanced, you can go crazy waiting for them to actually line up. But if we focus on harmony instead and let everything just work together,
I think it becomes so much more calming, so much more grounding. grounding. So I think I found harmony between how things were before and what kind of shifted with society having to move to you know ordering groceries online and all of that.
So um I think that's that's kind of what happened and for me definitely with where I work I had the flexibility to it's so funny I had just done a proposal to my job to allow me to work from home right before COVID.
COVID hit. They were letting me experiment. I think I had maybe nine months to experiment with this because I decided I wanted to homeschool. And I knew that I couldn't do it and make this long commute my nonprofits all the way out a new market.
And I'm like, by the time I drive out there and drive back, it's gonna be impossible if y 'all could just give me a shot and see if I can do just as much. If I can meet my same deliverables, everything's on time, then let me just do it from home.
home. And that way I can take some extra time and develop curriculum for my own children. And it was a beautiful experience. I got to be home with my babies. They came with me. We would still go up to the hill and they would get to play around.
They would meet my coworkers. We would have lunch and I would grab my mail and then I would go back home. And so I kind of had just figured out that that was a thing that could work for me.
And then COVID hit. and then everybody had to go home and I was like yes I don't have to worry about the proposal getting approved because it was working and now we're forced to work through it so I was kind of already in that shifting into it and I think that's probably why my response to it wasn't as strong because I was already learning how to how can I do more online how can I get more done and I feel like
I was so much more productive when I had that extra time when I lost that commute all the extra things that just suck the energy you know that you have so much brain capacity for making decisions if I have to make 30 of them before 8 o 'clock in the morning then how much am I actually gonna be before I burn out and I'm just you know rolling hours on a clock and I just felt like productivity shot up my well
-being shot up that was transformative for me that's amazing I make those 30 decisions in the car ride on the way to work that's how I do regular people do That's fascinating.
I think I I did a little assessment thing. I think I'm an introverted extrovert. So like I Gather energy from certain types of personalities, which makes me more extroverted, but like I don't mind being at home It's a whole I'm not sure I'm still figuring it out depends on the day depends on whether there's blue cheese involved essentially That's really how it works Um,
so So, you mentioned being 25 and thinking you had it all figured out. You're 35 now, a baby. I mean, my gosh, 35, you have so much life still. It's crazy.
So many people learn cyclical lessons in life, right? You think about how you thought you knew everything at 25. I'm pretty sure we all thought, as girls, we all thought we knew everything at 15, right? Right? I mean, 15,
18, and 25. Could you give an example of a lesson that you had to learn multiple times? And what was the turning point for you in finally grasping that? - I'm gonna call you-- - There's probably a few.
So, 'cause we're women, so just one, maybe. - Absolutely, I will say, I will call this the carousel of my life is, it's been a constant round and round of boundaries,
of learning how to say no. I have been very guilty. guilty since I was a kid of people pleasing and not knowing that sometimes a no was a better answer than a yes that I could barely fulfill.
- That's hard, we're women. We are not literally had this conversation. What is today? Today's Thursday, Tuesday had a conversation with my therapist about boundaries. And I have three sisters.
There's no boundaries when you have sisters. And so, when you're raised like that, there's, you know, you're punching each other and stealing clothes and pulling hair, and then you're best friends, and then you're mad 'cause you're like the same boy, and I mean,
boundaries I think is a real, that's, do we ever really fully learn boundaries, Coy? - I'm still listening to audible books to help me learn how to say no today.
So you asked if there was a turning point, and that's why I'm like, it's a carousel, because I think just a pin... on what's happening in life, you get to points where you learn what areas that you have to have more flexibility and you're able to stretch and say yes more.
I think the biggest thing for me is to say yes to myself first. So that's been like the magic gem for me has been if somebody asks me a question,
hey Coy, I know you said you had a lot going on. but I really need you to come to this event I'm having and come and say, just any kind of poem,
just three minutes, make up something, you'll be great. And I'm like, oh, that sounds amazing. I would love to help you, but when I think about how much time it's gonna take to write that poem, and then I have to show up on that day,
I now have to figure out what is this event about, what's the theme, I'm doing research, I want to have the right, I want to deliver it. it with excellence and if I can't feel proud of putting my name on it, oh my gosh,
a no would be so much better than delivering anything less than the standard that I would want to present. And so it's like, okay, if I say no, can I give another opportunity? Can I give them someone else who would be a great person to fill it in?
How can I say yes to myself and my needs? My needs at that time are probably sleep because I hardly get any of that. Yeah, probably. need to drink some water. Like, did I do any of the checklist things to make sure I'm good first?
'Cause they say you can't pour from an empty cup. And so just like checking that. So I don't know if you ever fully master it, but I think it's something that you practice at every single day.
That's definitely a lesson that I'm constantly going around and around with and trying to improve. - Well, sister, you are not alone in that. I think we are, we are all. in that. We're all on that same carousel,
like all the time. I think it's a matter of, regardless, I think of whether you're a people pleaser or not, you know, when someone asks us to do things,
we go, well, yeah, of course, I want to help you, right? I'm a woman, I'm a mother, I'm a friend, I'm a sister, whatever, we want to help. Oftentimes what we haven't taken the time to do is educate people on the amount of emotional energy.
it takes for us to A, just say yes, and B, actually execute. So I think that there's grace to be given always when someone asks you to help out with something or show up to something because they don't really know.
They're just making the ask, right, whether they got asked by five other people and then you're now the sixth person that they're asking or something like that or whether you were the first person that they asked, you know, it has a lot to do with,
you know, what is the cycle? How did we get to this? credit for it,
but they know that you would be shining and beautiful and all of those kinds of things. So, you know, the boundaries thing, that's valid. That is a constant struggle, I think, for a lot of people.
Give yourself grace, just like how you give grace to the people who ask you to do it. I mean, that's really important at the end of the day. It really is. Absolutely. So, it's hard when you are a people pleaser to define those boundaries and what is it about?
Because, I mean, you could have one. one boundary for a certain group of people, right? Like your coworkers. Yeah, I actually had, it's interesting. I had this one woman who I used to work with.
And you know, when you go into the office on Monday, right? Everyone does the sort of, you know, hey, how was your weekend? And the appropriate thing to do in a workspace is go, mine was great, how was yours?
Well, that wasn't really her style. Her style. was really just to tell you, literally everything that she did that weekend. And next thing you know, 25 minutes later, you're still standing there and you're like,
I could not care less about what you bought at the grocery store or what fight you got in with your husband or what you're like, it's not an unkind thing. So you set different kinds of boundaries with different kinds of people.
And I think that makes that carousel ride a little faster, a little more. treacherous. Like you want to put that buckle on, you know, because there's like this demographic of people that you have to set these kinds of boundaries with. And this demographic of people that you have to set these kinds of boundaries with.
And then your family, those boundaries depend on the day and how you're feeling and whether you've had your water, drink your water, Coy, you know, whether you've gotten your sleep and that kind of thing. So, um,
yeah, boundaries, that's a, that's a good one. Yeah. I think the other part about that too is the easiest way to practice saying no is to actually embrace other people's no.
So when you're moving in a spirit of being happy that someone else is actually honoring their boundaries, when you've made an ask, it makes it so much easier when it's your turn to do it because you've honored it for someone else.
So if I have asked for help and the person's like, "Ugh, I wish I could, I can't, I have made it." it like something triggers in my brain where it's like thank you for your honesty and for your transparency and for choosing yourself and I've had people look at me like what is wrong with you I just said no it's like no that's a beautiful thing that you just did it's something that I have a hard time doing you
have just inspired me thank you and it completely it I don't know if it rewires something in your brain but just embracing that, it makes you feel more comfortable with it.
No, it's not a bad word, you know? - Yeah, that's actually, that's a really good reminder 'cause I think we have a tendency, we kind of react a little bit, right? We ask someone for help or we ask someone to do something or come with me to this thing or whatever and someone honors their boundaries.
We are always almost immediately struck by rejection and it's hard to get, I think, from that point on. of rejection to that place of, oh,
you're honoring your boundaries. Let me help you do that by reminding myself to honor my own. Because, I mean, the number of times I've asked somebody to go to something with me that I don't even want to go to.
So I'm not honoring my boundaries. And then I'm asking someone else not to honor theirs with me so that I don't have to be alone in not honoring my own family. It becomes, I mean, it's a snowpocalypse 24.
It's a snowball effect rolling downhill. That's a really good reminder, Coy, it really is. Let's pivot a little bit. You and I've spoken a lot.
You speak passionately about the importance of community. Can you share a specific instance where your community played a crucial role in your personal or professional growth? Just one,
I know you got so many. I was going to say, how did we... do you even oh? Where do you even start? I? would definitely say Personal or professional It's all kind of both mm -hmm to me.
I don't I have a really thin line between personal and professional I'm gonna go with When I chose to close a question Kendrick Consulting,
when I chose to close the web design portion of Coy Kendrick Consulting and move more strategically into the creative space.
That was really hard. And a lot of it was because financially, it did not seem smart. It was one of those things where everybody was like, you've got this project and it is blowing up.
You have to turn people away. You're making more money than you've ever made. And I was at a place where I needed my sister. I called in my tribe, my three closest friends.
And then I have more on top of that. I'm gonna say my five closest people to me had to sit me down and be like, "Hey, you are burning both ends of the can." And I was kind of like,
"Am I though?" But I'm on fire, you're seeing me everywhere. I'm getting invited to all these things. People want me to come and talk to them and do these things. Why would I want to slow down?
I have all this momentum. My bank account is growing. I'm able to do things I couldn't do. I'm able to be places I never dreamed I would have a seat at the table. I'm being invited into rooms, into spaces,
and they're like, but look at your eyes. I can see the light. kind of just dimming down a little bit. And it was kind of, it was almost like an intervention of my community, of like my sisters being like,
we love you and you're going to be great whether it happens at the end of this quarter, at the end of this decade, in five, you know, 20 years from now,
it's in your future. You don't have to do it all today. - Mm -hmm. And so having the support of the people closest to me and some of those people were invested in this project.
And so me ending it meant ending, you know, cutting off a stream of income for them too, because we had built partnerships. I'm making, you know, these beautiful websites. And then I have my friends making,
doing the photography for it, doing the hair and makeup for the branding, doing the printing. And so it's like, if I can't do this part. anymore, the whole thing is gone. And I don't want to disappoint anyone.
And it was one of those things of I wasn't honoring myself because what people didn't see, they just saw like pretty websites and branding and everybody been like, oh, Coy was great to work with. And I'm like,
yay, you know, what they didn't see was what I was failing to give to my family because I was completely out of grace, out of energy, out of, I mean,
out was doing takeout and ordering food 'cause it was like, I can't even cook anymore, I don't have time, I have to go and I have to fix this website and I have to do this. And I remember I did a three day stretch where I literally only slept for four hours over the course of three days.
- Oh my. - And I was just living off of coffee and adrenaline and needing to get it done and not wanting to disappoint. And that's kind of where I say that.
that carousel of boundaries for yourself and saying yes to yourself if my Community if my sisters didn't step in and acknowledge and show me like pull me back out of it and show like be those mirrors Reflecting who I actually am and who I can be and who I wasn't because of how much I was pouring into work and not into myself or anybody else around me because of so much work,
it was kind of like, oh, I felt like I was on that show where they do the interventions and they're about to go take you. Like, let me, we have to drag you away. We have to show you this is a problem. It looks so good on the surface.
It looks so beautiful. If you get on Facebook, everybody's happy about it, but you are, you're gonna kill yourself eventually. You're really cutting off all of the lifeline that you have.
because you're barely functioning. And so it was kind of an intervention that happened there where it was like, we love you. One of my friends has even taken me to go,
I don't know if you've been to Wake Foot Spa and Knoxville. - Oh yeah, of course, yeah. - This is not a paid thing. So just know that this is genuine. But (laughs) it took two of us out to go do the foot soap.
soak and just relax. And it was like, that was one of the first times that I had just slowed down outside. This is not like a COVID thing. This was like a actual self -care time for just me.
We weren't even speaking to each other here in a quiet dark room. Your feet are soaking and it's just like you and your thoughts. And as I'm relaxing and I'm just seeing like, whoa, these are all the things that these are,
all these creative ideas. started coming up. And it was like, wow, you haven't been living in your creative space because you've just been checklists and Asana to do's and not gonna mount and web development and staring at a screen,
you know, just for hours and hours on end. And it was like an opportunity to reconnect with myself. But because of them, they they facilitated that.
- Yeah, I mean, it's important and you have a great tribe that'll do that. 'Cause I think one of the key components of, you know, whether you call it your tribe or your sisterhood or your board of directors or whatever you call it,
you know, if you have a good team around you, they will check you on your ego real quick. And that's really what it was, right? I mean, that's kind of what you talked about.
Like I'm being invited to things. I'm going to talk to them. to things, people see me and they're acknowledging me and praising me. And that's where we have allowed our ego to become bigger than, I don't want to say appropriate necessarily,
but bigger than the sum of who we are, right? Because that became more important. And it's very intoxicating. It's completely understandable, you know, there's no shaming in any of it.
But that's why a community is so important because we can let those things happen to us. We can. I've been there too, you know? And, you know, there's, as a working mom,
there's a pride in ownership, right? There's, it's that really hard line between, am I putting too much into work and not being enough of a mom?
Am I being too much of a mom and not putting enough into work? because they're paying me for this, right? But I got to take care of my kids and I got to work in order to take care of my kids. I mean, it is, in my opinion,
one of the worst equations that exists on planet Earth. And so it is very easy to find yourself caught up in the ego part 'cause you're going, oh gosh, okay. You know, I'm doing well,
I'm getting the accolades, which means I'm getting more money, which means I can take care, better care of my family and my kids, but I'm kind of sacrificing a little bit. over here because I'm not cooking as much, but I can, we go out to eat or we do these fun things.
And it is, it is so critical to have a good tribe or board of directors behind you that will go, okay, you're cute and all, but let's like bring it down,
back down to reality and let's make sure that you're taking care of yourself. So good on you for having that kind of community behind you. It's not an easy thing to build. It's not, I mean. mean, you know, I think as women,
we have a tendency to become a little gun shy, right? Of like, who do we let in that closely? Who do we allow? 'Cause we're, especially mommies,
we're big on like, we don't allow a lot of stuff. We're the ones that do the allowing, right? So who are we going to allow into our lives and allow to tell us, you know, that we're doing too much, we're not doing enough,
we need to pay more attention. You know, I will tell you, my daughter, she is, so you mentioned earlier, like your mom, mommy, mom, just wait, your kids will get old enough. She calls me by my first name sometimes and bless her heart is all I will say about that.
She also sometimes calls me bruh. So that's pretty cool too. So you're close, you're getting there. I think the first time she called me bro, I think she was like 17 or 18 years old. So that's always one,
a kind of rattle. you for a second. But she actually, a couple of years ago, she came to me and she just said, "Mommy, stop. You have to take care of yourself.
You are not taking care of yourself. We will be okay. We're okay." But if you're not okay, we're not gonna be okay. So I would say you've got your tribe,
right? You've got your sisterhood. But think of how you're feeling. can also be your tribe 'cause as your kids get older, they see you and they see you in a way that those girls will never see you. - Listen,
let me tell you about my four and six year old. So Onyx and Quest, those are the youngest two, but Onyx, the six year old, is an old soul. I am sure that she has been here before.
She sometimes has wisdom beyond me where I'm like, how? I remember there was... was um a weekend and she was asking can we go to something something and I'll give you all the money that I have and I was saying oh baby I don't need your money and she was like well if I give you money then you don't have to work for so long so that you can make more money so that we can go and I don't want you to work all the
time because then we won't get to go because you're too busy on your computer she hang out with my max because max does used to do the same thing to me too and he's seven He used to do the same thing when he was like five and six years old.
It's the same thing. They see you. They see you. - Listen, when I say my heart like dropped to the bottom of me, I was just like, I'm working too much.
- Yeah. - And they see it. They are equating mommy sitting at the computer with, that's the only way that she's gonna make more money. And that's the only way that we can spend time with hers if she doesn't have to do that.
And so. yeah, I would say there's been multiple wake -up calls. So you definitely have, you know, your peers, your that intentional community that you build and the people that you place around you that you can trust and be vulnerable with.
I think that's what you were getting through earlier, like, who do you let that be? But gosh, children are, they see it. Well, they're always almost part of your why. Like, everybody's driven by something.
And for me, that's always going to be a part of it. Doesn't matter what other mission I have in life, creating a better future for them, a different type of childhood than what I had for them is always going to be part of that.
- Absolutely. - And so when you realize, I know you talked about ego earlier, but it's like even more than that, you've gotten away from, what was the reason you were doing all this for? You wanted to make more so that what,
it wasn't about the money. money, it was about the freedom that came with having that, but you've instead become a slave to something else. And so when you, it's like you have to constantly humble yourself and remind yourself of why you're doing it and who you're doing it for,
it makes it a lot easier to know what to say yes to and what to say no to. It sure does and kids will humble you quick, so let them. them, let them humble you quick.
You talked earlier about balance. I loved your analogy about the scale. So next time I'm at the doctor, I'm gonna be like, I'm here for harmony. (laughing) And I'm just gonna get off whenever I feel like getting off. So as a mother,
a nonprofit worker, a creative, more, all of the things that Coy Kindred is, how do you manage to harmonize all of these diverse roles? We're not gonna be using the word balance.
we're gonna use the word harmonize. - How do you manage it? Well, I mean, let's be real, like, do you manage, do you feel like you manage it? - I'm gonna say that it goes back to having a supportive community because I wouldn't be able to without it,
without having a supportive partner, without having people around me to be those checks and balances to my decisions and in my, you know, when I'm... battling with something or when I'm just having a rough time.
Like there were, I was just having a conversation the other day where I was saying, wow, there was a morning where I just didn't want to exist. Like the overwhelm of life was feeling like,
I don't want to not be here, but I also just don't want to, I just want one day off of life. Like I just want one day to not be, to not have to make any decisions for nobody to call me or ask me.
me. Like if I could just go disappear into a cave somewhere in a mountain and all the fruit and food that I need, you know, to survive is in there and I don't have to like exist to the rest of society for just 24 hours where you feel so overwhelmed by what is happening around you.
Having people that you can be vulnerable enough with to say like... I really am struggling with just doing life today But just adulting today and not feeling judgment not getting the just like oh Give it the old college try and just push through it because sometimes that's not what you need to hear Sometimes you just need your emotions to be held in the moment of it's okay.
You just need that validated It's okay to be overwhelmed. I don't know why we're so afraid of speaking on it We spend so much time trying to suppress how hard life can be that we're a sidestepping reality to a point where you're just trying to cope with what,
you know, well, I'm just going to do it day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, and I'm okay right now. And if I have another cup of coffee and then I'm chugged down some water and I go for a run, you know, that's going to get my, that's going to change my hormones.
I'm going to be in a better mood. My cortisol is going to change. I'll, you know, all of those. things happen and it inches you towards feeling better, but it doesn't get you to the root of what's actually happening. So I think actually being okay with sitting and embracing where you are and having people who will allow you to do that without necessarily coming up with solutions for you,
but just holding the space and then being there, what if they see you thinking to be able to pull you back, and okay, we've let you have it, you've had it. it. Now,
let's come out. Let's come back to life." I have a perfect balance of that, and it took so much time to find those right people. We laugh because I have two people that are feelers in my group,
and I'm one of the two strong, we'll say the strong friends that are not as vulnerable all the time. We have to choose vulnerability, we have to practice it.
We have to really choose. to like crack open. - That's when you get along so well. Cause I'm also not like therapist. She goes, she goes, you know, feelings are okay. And I was like, okay. - Yes,
we have two criers in the group. And when they cry, I'm just like, part of me is like swelling up inside. And I'm like, oh, I want to cry for you. Like I want to cry with you. It's not happening. There's no water coming.
But I feel all of the feelings. And I think so I end up expressing those things. music or through poetry because I can word it and I can put strength behind it where other people can feel it. And then it evokes that emotion.
Other people can let it out. But I've had to practice sitting with feelings. Oh, it's such hard work. It's so hard. - I love that you practice. I'm not practicing. - Well, I'm almost,
I'm faced with it because we've got this group of, hey, I see the two of you are, you're going into your logical. side and we see you trying to justify or you're trying to rationalize why you feel attacked." I feel attacked.
I'm not gonna lie. Cool. And this is them speaking to me, but it's that balance because when they're, my mom used to say, "I'm a waterhead. I just cried everything.
A commercial could come on. I'm crying." When you have people who are just able to give in, they're usually the most passionate people. in your life. The ones that are really strong, they're usually the anchors in your life.
And so finding the right, the perfect mix. It's like you're almost this alchemist trying to find the right pieces, the right people to put together. And that's the only way that you're gonna make it through life is finding that right combination of people that you have around you that are gonna balance you.
They're gonna mirror and kind of like me and you, I can tell if there's a strength, there's a, little bit of a fire, seeing that in the other person, that helps. It also helps you see when it's not good,
right? Because you can go back and say, ooh, I do that sometimes, that doesn't serve me always. - I agree. - And so it's just, it's finding that whole community. - You know,
I have found that, and I found this recently that that community found me, you know, you, when you... you know, people that we know, we work with, and,
you know, within the let her lead community and all of that kind of stuff, you know, they're well known and they do this, that and the other thing and they're phenomenal and you, you see, you see a certain view of them,
right? You see the public persona, so to speak. And then when you see them really with their people, it makes sense to you. And I learned recently like those people in my life show themselves to me.
You know, you don't really, I am not 35. I'm a little bit older than 35. And it takes a long time. I think it's hard, you know, as a woman, I moved here to Knoxville about six,
almost six and a half years ago. And, you know, I knew not one single person. I moved here with my daughter and my son. And, you know, it wasn't that I wasn't trying to make friends, but I also wasn't trying to make friends.
Like I had work to do. I was in the, like I have bills to pay, I have children to take care of, I have to work, I worked really hard, blah, blah, blah. And then friendships came, which was great. And they came organically,
which was wonderful. And then over time, those friendships, those relationships defined themselves, which was really great. 'Cause I think we spend as women, we spend so much of our youth,
like we are creating friendships. Oh, I think we spend so much of our youth, like the way that she dresses, or we do the same sport, or we do the same music or whatever it is. And we're, we're so busy trying to make friendships that we somehow in our adult lives have to realize that those friendships are just going to become.
And those people that are the best people for your tribe, like you said, like I, you and I are very similar. I, I could send my daughter and Instagram something right now.
And she would burst into tears. It does not matter. what it would be. It could be funny, it could be sad, it could be happy. She will just cry. She would send me something and I would go, ha, ha, ha. And it's supposed to be sad,
right? So, you know, it's just those people present themselves to you and they show you who they are. And then you go, oh my gosh, I'm so grateful because you are exactly what I needed that I didn't know that I needed or that I did know that I needed but I was afraid.
to ask. - Absolutely, and I think, and I've had people ask me like, I've even had women tell me like, I envy, I see you and your friends. I see you posting,
doing things together. Like, how did y 'all find that? Like, I want that. I know I can't just insert myself into your group, but how do I cultivate that in my life? How do I create that? And what I tried to think back like,
how did we get connected? It was not a, seeking each other out because it was all, we all met by chance. And it's so funny 'cause my closest friends to me, we've all connected through poetry.
But that's, we didn't know that when we met each other necessarily. But it was about being in a space of being open and receptive to it, being whole.
I think the more, it's kind of like with relationships, with love relationships. You usually don't find the person. that's your person until you stop looking and trying so hard to find the person You actually focus on being the best you that allows you to be the best partner,
which then it Sends something out into the universe. It's like, oh, here's a person who's whole and ready and now All of these opportunities can be put in front of them It's the same thing with friendship and I think as women it can be really really hard because there's this underlying layer sometimes of competition or this cattiness that people have experienced from high school or mean girls in middle school and
everybody's hormones were great you know everything was all over the place I don't think most of us are not who we were then and so the closest friendships that I have now were developed over the last decade but I know that they're gonna be with me until you know I can't speak anymore or until I can't speak anymore or until I can't speak anymore or until I can't speak anymore barely walking and so I Think it you
have to put yourself in a position to be open to those relationships of saying wow I Want to be a person who can support others instead of saying I need people who can just listen to me and hear me Yes.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, I don't want to call it whining But you're not gonna get that because what are you what are you getting where there has to be something reciprocal? That happens happens. And so if there's not anything there to give,
you cannot expect to receive. And so like, you know, really pouring into yourself, knowing who you are, and that's how we all cross paths. I think one, we actually met at a poetry event where we both ended up going up and we're like,
we have to know each other. And we just never stopped knowing each other from that day on. Others, we met at a bonfire. There happened to be poetry by the end of the night, but we didn't know that when we got there. And it's like,
those things just happen organically when you're in that space, when you're being authentic to yourself. - Yeah, yeah. - No, it's a good point, I think, with a lot of things in life.
You have to stop the looking, right? And then the world will show itself to you, which is a really beautiful thing. But for those of us that may be a little less vulnerable than others,
it's a little harder for us to do that. But, so, you still have to stop the looking, often about redefining narratives, overcoming labels,
how are you approaching the process of rewriting your story and what challenges have you faced while you're doing that? That is the most loaded question now that I'm,
I'm listening to you as you're saying it and trying to answer it all at the same time, and I'm like, oh, there's so much, there's so much there. Okay. Okay. - You know, maybe the way to think about it is,
you know, we've talked a lot today and you've shared some of your challenges that you've had. I don't know that, I would have to say,
I don't know that you're rewriting your story. I think you're just, you know, you're starting a new chapter, right? You don't have to, I think when we think about the word rewriting, it's almost like we're taking in a race.
and going over all the other stuff and we can't do that. That's not a good idea, right? We have to own everything, right? The good, the bad, the ugly, we always wanna own the good stuff,
right? Like, oh, this funny story or this great thing or this award or whatever else, right? I think rewriting is maybe the wrong vocabulary to use. And I would say, you know, what challenges have you faced in rewriting?
you faced in starting this new chapter? - Yeah, I like that because I'm, thank you for challenging that language because you're not actually rewriting. It's more of choosing your ending.
It makes me think of the old Goosebumps stories where you could remember sitting in the library and reading through and you could choose. - She's so young because we call it choose your own adventure books,
but continue Goosebumps. (laughing) - Choose your own adventure, okay. - I'm so much older than you, boy, this is so terrible. - Well, if you want me to, I can really take it back to,
I'm from Syracuse, New York, and we had this, it was like a hotline, and they had a thing called adventure seekers, and you could call this 1 -800 number, and you would choose your own adventure,
and it would be like, okay, you're walking up to a bridge, you can eat it, press one if you wanna go over the bridge, press two if you wanna battle whatever's underneath.
And you would have to pick one of the things. I love to choose your own adventure books 'cause it would say at the bottom, like if you want to continue on this, go to page 47. If you wanna do this, you go to page 23.
Well, I would look at both and see which one I liked better. - That's cheating. (laughing) it's a book, boy, it's not real life, settle down. - That is so bad.
- See that point, so you want it to be in control and I think that's one of the things. - I know, I just sucked all the fun out of that moment, but it's so real because-- - It is real,
it's real. - It was a reflection of me because I used to do the same thing. (laughing) I think most people did, if you could know, it was kind of like, you wouldn't read the whole thing. but it would be like,
let me just see the couple first lines. - Is the story over. - I would love to meet someone that didn't peek at both. Please tell me who you are. - Yeah, we all want to have some level of control.
- That's right. - But I definitely think bringing it back to real life, that's what it is. You're not actually rewriting the story. I know for me, statistically, just based on where I'm from,
the story of my mom and all of the obstacles that she's been through. faced in her life, me bouncing from household to household, all of the things that should have counted me out from where I am today.
I think it already, I've already shifted their narrative just by not becoming the statistic that society expects me to be because of these situations.
Even now, being a mother of four, there's a lot that people don't even, large families, people are like, "Whoa, you have to have three rows in your SUV,
don't you?" Because where do you fit on those? There's more of the coming. There's more of the coming. I leave some behind. I just choose who I like the best that day. Yeah. But there's a lot of stigma around having a large family,
and there's a lot of assumptions that people will make if they see, you know, a young black woman, I'm saying young. I don't know what qualifies as young, but I'm... just a young black woman with,
you know, two teens and then two elementary school age. They already have ideas about, hmm. - Oh, they've created your chapter for you.
- Oh yeah, they know what my life is. They probably are imagining where I'm living. - Yeah, give them a lot of opinions. - Yeah, and so I love proving people wrong. - I think I do,
they say, you know, success is important. the best revenge. And I don't think of myself as having any enemies, but conquering life is on my list,
you know? And so, - I love that, that's a great answer. - Yeah. - Did I answer the question? - No, but it's a, no, I'm just kidding. Yes, of course you did. No,
that's a, that's a, it is a really good answer. I mean, I think, you know, as women, women, we probably know people that... have, you know, we know so many women that have so many different stories.
And at the end of the day, it's none of our business, you know, how anybody started, got to wherever they were midway through their journey or where they are now, it's none of our business,
right? That's her own story. We don't, we have no right to an opinion or anything like that. And so I know what you mean, you know, my daughter is 22. 22, my son is seven.
I moved here as a single woman. There were, I'm to get some choice comments, you know, and, and it happens. And that's okay. You know, the whole trick is to be unfazed by it because that's what bothers people the most.
They want you to react, right? They want you to, so you just keep on keeping on and let them have their opinions and their corduroy pants and their bad attitudes and whatever else. But no,
I think it's, it's, it's a great. story. I think it's a great answer, you know. I think that revenge serves nothing and nobody and it's ugly, don't do that, you know? Just keep on doing you and being you and being so cute about it.
And yes, you are young, you can say young, it's fine. - Oh, that's funny. - So let's talk a little bit about the Let Her Lead program.
How has the let her lead program influenced your perspective on leadership and personal development? And you can say, this is where you say a lot of amazing things about me, obviously.
So just, I'll let you have the floor. I'll start by saying by pairing me with the best mentor ever, ever in history of the world.
Um, no, there has been. so much. I have this, I have this app called Marco Polo that I stay connected to my friends with. Every time I would come out of a let her lead session before I could even make it out of the market square parking lot,
I immediately turn on the polo. You guys, I just had the best session again. It's another set of gyms. I remember so when we entered the program and Catherine has done an amazing job of organizing everything.
- Agreed. - But we got these turquoise journals and these glittery pens. And I was like, ooh, I feel important. I feel like something important is gonna get written in here. It just felt magical, right? - Did you get a glittery pen?
(laughing) - You're on the other side. I'm sure we could work something out for you. We'll talk about it offline. And so, I remember the first, one of the big ones. thing,
I don't know if it's the first thing I wrote in this journal, but one of the most memorable things that I wrote down was there was something, and I don't remember if Catherine said it 'cause I just wrote it so big and bold and traced over it so many times,
but it was never be the first person to tell yourself no. Like you don't get to say no to you. And whether that's not making the ass, that was you. That was definitely Catherine's words.
So but it was like whether you if you refuse to make the ass because You're moving out of fear or you're refusing to take action Which I have learned is like at the foundation of what courage is if you do those things you're saying no to yourself and It completely it seems like something so small because I mean we learned so much over like the entire program was beautifully put together and just being in connection
with the right people. So many conversations were sparked. It was like, I will call it a seed planting program because it goes well beyond what she crafted and created in our actual curriculum was one thing and it was beautiful.
So many resources and so many, you know, moments and sparks of inspiration. But what we built outside of that. and how we supported each other, most of us were complete strangers,
not knowing each other at all, maybe seeing each other at some events, like, "Oh, yes, I've forgotten that person." But then to see them in those spaces and watch them evolve in such a short amount of time,
transformative, absolutely. But that one line, it's the one that sticks out to me. I kept thinking, I was like, "We're graduating. It's a lot of work. none of us want it to end. Like, we were like, can we just keep me,
are we allowed to still use this building? Can we meet on our own? Just like, yeah, I mean, y 'all are people, you're allowed to talk to each other after, you know, you don't need me here to do that. But she created this beautiful thing that has grown into something else,
but something about, I don't know what it is about the word no, when it comes to boundaries, when it comes to telling it to ourselves, when we don't need to. Dude, that's like, like, ah,
something about that keeps coming up. - Well, we're very well versed and we're mothers and we're very well versed in telling other people no. We're excellent at that, but-- - But ourselves? - But ourselves, mm -mm.
- We say it at the wrong time. We say-- - Oh yeah, we say no to all the worst stuff, yeah, for sure. - Yeah, but not, you know, you said we're gun shy. We don't want to take that action. Don't want to, ah,
it's not, you, we don't want to take that action. We don't want to take that action. We don't want to take that action. We don't want to take that action. We don't want to take that action. We don't want to take that action. built so much confidence in being able to articulate my value, not just because of the utility of what I can produce,
but because of who I am. That's what I'm taking away from this program. - That's amazing. - That was something. - That was so good. - I'm hearing it back to myself.
- You should put that in a podcast or something. - I think you should put that in a line on your website. - I do too. too. - Coy Kendritsa, put quotes. (laughing) - Now that you've had an opportunity to learn about Coy's leadership journey,
let's listen in as she shares the legacy she wants to leave behind. One of the hardest things I've ever been asked to do is to introduce myself.
You might be wondering what's so hard about that? You say your name, what you do, where you're from, so on and so forth, but here's the catch. Imagine being asked to introduce yourself without saying anything about what you do for a living,
where you're from, or who you are in relation to yourself. to anyone else. That's kind of tough, right? I've often been introduced as Coy Kindred,
mother of four, sister of many. Sometimes I'm called a poet, an advocate, a creative, and now through this highly transformational program, I embrace the title of leader along with some of the most inspiring women that I've ever met.
And as proud as I am of all of these things, things, they still don't fully answer the question without breaking the rules. I realize now that I, well, really most of us,
right, have spent the majority of our lives letting other people define us without taking stock of those invisible, hidden parts of our stories, the parts that actually shape us into who we are.
The beauty of this intricate task of breaking down who we are, aside from all of those titles and a story. is this unique opportunity to take this internal inventory,
and I mean really getting our hands dirty and raking through our experiences, recognizing and weeding out the lessons that have been cyclical, meaning that we've repeated them over and over.
My experience, of course, is that you don't stop being taught a lesson until you've actually learned it. And by evaluating the fruit that we've produced. produced. If you see a tree, what's the fastest way to recognize it?
By its flowers or typically by its fruit. I've learned that when it comes to people, you'll know them by their fruit. And that fruit can represent so many things,
right? Your character, your reputation, the way you treat people, the energy that you bring into a room, the tenacity in which you chase down your dreams. I mean, it's really... really up to you to decide how you wanna define it.
But however you do, the fruit is both evidence and it's affirmation of who you are. And even more, if you were to cut open that fruit, the seeds that you find inside,
and just note that we're all planting seeds all of the time, whether we know it or not. But those seeds can be used to strategically plant and cultivate the garden that's going to support you,
your family. and ultimately your community to thrive. And so I've made it my personal mission to help till the soil of tenacious women who are ready to tend to their gardens.
And whenever I share this mission, the next question is usually, Coy, what makes you so passionate about this? I mean, it's hard enough work trying to figure it all out on your own.
You have four kids. kids, you work at a nonprofit by day, you're a creative by night. You serve on the media ministry. I mean, how in the world do you even find the capacity to lean into this work that takes such heavy emotional lifting?
Well, I have three answers to that. And the first answer is that I really don't. I don't have the capacity to do it on my own. What I do have is.
is wisdom enough to know that I don't have to, which also brings me to my second answer, my tribe. The circle that holds me steady when life gets really rocky.
When I have high capacity, I pour into them. And when I have low to no capacity, guess what? They pour into me. This is the reason I advocate so fiercely for community because if we're being honest,
none of us do. I've been very intentional about maintaining these relationships that not only support my goals, my dreams, they hold me accountable and love and remind me of who I am when life gets to life and I start to forget.
If society ever tries to tell me who I am based on my past, or who I should be because of the cars that have been stacked against me, they are the truest reflection of who I really am. This is the type of sisterhood I do.
desire for every woman to have. It is so necessary. When it comes to why I am so passionate about my life's mission,
my final answer is my mom. The reason I'm able to do most of the hard things in life almost always leads me back to her. If you know my background,
you might wonder how to do it. how do you explain finding strength through someone who fell weak to drug addiction? Someone whose body was so weak from chemotherapy that she could break a bone just reaching for a kitchen cabinet?
Where is the strength in that? This is why the reclamation of your story and self -definition is so critical. I don't have to rewrite history to define my mother as more than a crackhead.
crackhead, a single mother, a food stamp recipient, wheelchair bound, a cancer patient. What many people don't know is that when I was born,
they said she'd be lucky to see me make it to kindergarten. They don't even know that she prayed every single day after her diagnosis to live long enough just to see me graduate and get into college.
My college acceptance letters came in April. April. I graduated from high school in May, flew back home to visit her in June, and she passed in July. I was 18 years old.
She wasn't supposed to see me make it to kindergarten. Doctors couldn't even explain why she was still alive when she was. She may have battled addiction, but in the end she won.
My mom was clean when she left here. And yes, I cried a lot. lot of tears over her, but a few of them were because I witnessed a miracle. She was a miracle.
She showed me that no matter what anyone says, no matter how people may try to label you, there's always another story buried somewhere underneath. You owe it to yourself and to those who will follow in your footsteps to reclaim that story.
Unearth those pages and rewrite your ending as many times as it takes. until you get it right. I'm still in the process of crafting my story and I hope one day I can be the light that helps you see how simple it can be to pick up the pen and write yours.
This episode of She Speaks is brought to you by our amazing partners at Schaad Companies. She Speaks is produced, edited, and scored by the very talented Travis Tench at Oak Hill Audio.
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